One simple gift a boss can give to boost employee happiness

Yieldify. But this week we're going to find out a little bit more about the person he is now, how an

extended stay in New York forced

him in life

Let's not waste any more time and get on with the.

we'd connected. And then you just pissed off to New York for like a couple of years. And like,

and I don't, I remember like we were texting and stuff, but it wasn't very frequent. And I

remember just thinking at the time you were just slammed busy to the point where you weren't

really doing much.

memory, it was like growing like crazy. Like what, what was that period of

absolute crazy. Then there was this moment where obviously had to make the change and then,

you know, we had to get back to our feet and then we started growing again.

And at this moment I realized that a big opportunity for us was in us. So basically quite early in

the business, I did actually start investing and building a team in New York, but I'd really just left

need to basically take a one-way flight over there and make that business really grow in that

region.

Yeah. I basically just left everything behind. I didn't know how long I was gonna be there and

had a visa and I just basically made the move. Were you happy? I think, look at the start. I was

enjoying New York because at this moment like everything was going good. I was feeling really

healthy and my relationships were good.

So really like, everything was good. But it's really strange. What happened was this one week. I

remember like a few people actually asked me that same question. Like Jay, are you really

happy? I was dunno. I was just attracting these people to basically ask me that question. I

dunno, what's going on? I remember there's this one day.

So I'm in, in my apartment in New York. This is in the middle of like union square, which is a

really nice part of the middle of my apartment. I don't know what it was. I just felt this real.

Strange pain in my stomach. I never felt it before. It was like, honestly, I dunno how to describe

it. It was like a lump in my stomach.

It was like, literally like eating a tennis ball and it was in my stomach and I was just like, what's

going on? What's going on? I kept on asking what was going on, what going on? And then

suddenly memories of people asking me that week, like, Jay, are you happy? Are you happy?

Started coming up in my mind.

And I was like, what the hell is going on? It felt like it was the, like, I don't know. It was just this

voice that came in. It was, it was super weird. It was like one of those voodoo, spiritual, I guess,

moments. I don't know, for me, it was just like weird, like what was going on. As I started

reflecting on that question, I was just actually going, wait, actually, maybe there's something

here.

Maybe I'm not happy inside. Like what's going on on the outside. It looked like I was happy, but

on the inside something, something just felt like something was missing. And that at that

moment I start getting advice. I started to get some of the answers. So basically someone

recommended me this book. Um, it's a really famous book that maybe lots of people have now

read.

It's called the power of now bike art toll. Um, I think you mentioned, you've read that book as

well and I've read it. Yeah. The first time read it. It's like, oh my God. It's like probably the most

complicated, complex book to ever read. I pick up the book, I throw it and then I'll find it back

again. And literally, I had this three-month journey with this book and then eventually some stuff

started making a bit of sense.

That's why a lot of

know, speaking, yoga babble or whatever. But the reality is it's a very hard book to read and it's

very. You have to put in the effort. It's not like one of those books that you

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've gotta really

the same thing as meditation, right? Like not to go on a tangent here, but like meditation is

effortlessly simple, but it's so hard to implement and you know, it's very hard to stick with.

And anyway, so, you read us.

to like other books. So I probably read like, honestly, between 50 and a hundred books over this

year, two years. Um, just trying to understand how the mind works, and what joy was inside.

So that's what I was trying to solve for was like, how do I. Become joyful. Like to me, you know,

life is about being happy and sad. These moments are gonna come, but really like how do you

get that middle joy, that peaceful, but also be joyful? I wasn't trying to optimize for peace. I was

trying to optimize for joy cause I wanted to have this fun, playful level.

And that's what I was trying to find. And I met a lot of yogis and I was just trying to like, Meet

people. And these yogis would teach me again about meditation. And that's when I discovered

yoga, which was my thing. Why I learned was there are so many different things you can

discover to make the mind more peaceful.

And like really what you're trying to do is try to quiet the mind and make it more peaceful at the

same time. Like, use like affirmations to basically. Cleanse it. So you're cleansing your mind and

you want to quieten it, then the voice inside you like this heart, or like your gut, whatever you

wanna call that like can start becoming clearer.

So like, you know, as we know, like what was happening and, you know, when I reflect back, it

was just these two voices with the mind and the heart. And as time went on, the more work I did

on myself, my mind would start becoming much quieter. Cleansed, much more pure, which then

also allowed me to listen to my deeper heart.

That was really the journey. And like, I'd say yoga was one of the big changes for me. So, you

know, I started off really small. I was doing like 10 minutes and God, it was bloody hard. And

then I just started building up to a point where I was like 30 minutes. So really, you know, for the

last four or five years, I've been doing it every single day.

And I'd say like, that's probably helped me the most, but yeah, it was a journey. And then. You

know, when I started doing it, I started to become a lot happier. Do you reckon you were happy

realize like, you know what, I'm actually not happy?

Did it change it dip like when you were in New York, was that what happened or did you

suddenly have a realization that you weren't

full of like highs and lows and it was really awesome. Right. Like, as in like, yeah, there's lows

and moments of high lows and moments of low, and that's what I was living.

It was just this roller coaster life. But if you look at the actual core, I was just going with life. It

was just like, literally I was getting pulled in all directions and yeah, I didn't really know how to

really centre myself. My mind was basically just pulling me in all these different directions and I

wasn't listening to my heart.

Like that's what something, um, so I feel like, yeah, that was. That's definitely a reflection. When

I look back,

this, you know, you suddenly had this like spiritual awakening and you, you know, you're getting

to all these, like hundreds of books that you are reading and

Yeah. Yeah. How were you

marrying

responsibility to grow this company, which you did, and it was super successful. It still is super

successful. How did you marry the two? Because I can't imagine you like walking. Barefoot with

like prayer beads around your neck and stuff in a funky shirt.

Like I just, I can't, I, I dunno, like, what was that? What was going on? Like, you know, did

people ask questions?

wave, I think, yeah. I started centring myself. I started becoming a lot happier and people

around me at work and even outside of work said, Hey, Jay, like, something's changed.

If you, are you taking cocaine or something? I don't know. Like you seem to be so different. I

was like, no, no, no. I've been working on myself. And at that point, this is like, now it's obvious.

Very normal to work on yourself, but like wish year, wish the year was this, what would, so it's

probably 17, 18, 17. Okay.

right?

Like this like

No look honestly I was just keeping it quite a high level. Yeah. My, I guess the company was.

Quite free and open. That was what it was all about. And so they were quite, yeah, I didn't go

too deep. It was just, that I feel the right level.

And I

you know, fulfilment at the workplace. Cause you've got like a bunch of awards at, at a year to

five being like a good place to work out. Is that?

really, we won some was at unifying as well.

And you know, when I look back, like one of the things I really picked up on was just, I think

what we, we changed the company to just be a lot more open, like, you know, really take the

mask off, make sure everyone was. Willing to be vulnerable. And what does that really mean?

Like, you know, if you're stuck, if you need help, like please ask for it.

I think there's this, everyone wants to prove themselves a lot and sometimes there's a really

important problem or a really important task that's on someone's mind. And they need to solve it

and they try to solve it themselves. When really there's maybe someone around them who's

actually solved that problem.

Or they can go speak to, they just don't do it. Well, maybe even someone outside of the

business and like, you know what I said to them is like, look, it's okay if you dunno the answer.

Like actually most of the things like even to be absolute Frank, I don't know the answer to most

things. Right. And, but you have to go find the people like be open, be vulnerable, be okay.

So like that was one pattern I noticed quite quickly, like once I'd gone through my journey, I was

like, wow, like. Holding things in and they should be asking more for help. There's a really good,

um, There's a really good book by,

There is this two psychology, um, uh, professors at Stanford and their classes are one of the

most booked in or most subscribed classes at Stanford business school.

So all these business schools, uh, MBAs, you know, they, they go and they, and this is like the

most describe classes. It's all about connection. It's about everything from parenting to

friendships. Work colleagues and also like, you know, making sure that you have a non-com

combative and a productive working relationship.

Right. And that's what kind of like brought that to mind what, when you're, when you are, when

you're talking about that, because what companies these days, so I hear are all after is this like

harmonious and beautiful culture. Uh, to work in, right? Everyone's talking about culture, culture,

we've got a great culture where we're innovative, we're, you know, supportive we're, we are

diverse, you know, all, all these sorts of like buzzwords that people are looking for.

And they shove in like a pool table and like an open brick wall or whatever. And it's like, this is

kind of what it evokes. But, what you are talking about, I think is genuine. Passion for creating

that workplace. And you've got experience, not just in unify where it seems like you had the

seedlings of that idea, but you've sort of imbued it in all the other companies.

And I wanna, I wanna drill down on that when people say we've got a culture, like how should

they go about what, what are some pointers that you have to,

Right? You've got the purpose. Like, you know, what is that meaningful problem you're trying to

solve?

And like does every single person in the business really believe it? Like, I feel like a lot of

businesses say they got a big vision and a purpose, but you know, it's usually something that

was done on a quick offsite, you know, a bunch of execs go out, you know, have a few drinks

and have a big lunch over two days and come back and like maybe a bit hungover and go.

Yep. That's the one that's basically our vision. And I'm just like, Yeah, you have to just spend the

time. So that's really important than, like from a leadership perspective, like, you know, are the

leaders, have they worked on themselves? Like, are they someone that you are really excited to

work with for the next five to 10 years?

Like, you know, that's someone who, and I feel like that's something that businesses really need

to work out. Like, are they training their leaders, but at the same time, have the leaders done the

work themselves? Right. And you find. Can be questionable at times. And then obviously you've

got the culture piece as well.

Like, you know, what are those values that you really feel can make that big, big difference?

Cause I feel like, I think right now it's turned to a bit of a, like, you know, there's all these like

different codes and books and stuff out there, but like it's super important that it comes from the

heart. Like I just feel like it tends to quite a lot of fluffy stuff right now.

I think that's something that I know after U. I think in unify, we really evolved that and that

became really good. And then I think in my future companies, I think, I feel like I learned a lot in

unifying. I feel like that's what really helped my next companies as well. Significantly. Yeah. So

you stepped away from co

What, what was, why was that like, if, if, if you were like on the, you know, from a sceptics

position, right? If you're on this journey, you are like, you know, suddenly everyone's enjoying

work again. It's like a nice place to work with it. Why, why would

voice again, like, honestly, like I was, I listened to what that voice is telling me.

And the voice kept on saying like, I, I, I felt there was this, this problem of bringing joy to work. I

was dunno. It just really hit me. Like I was like, wow, this is a bigger problem that I really wanna

solve. And I'd been running unify for like seven years. Right. And once I enjoyed the CRO, I. I

enjoyed it, but it wasn't, I don't feel, it was like where I was best placed, you know, really when

companies scale to a good size, um, whether it's like, you know, somewhere like 200 or even

2000 or whatever it is, it's like the main thing you're trying to work out is, is more on the

operational side.

Like making sure the business scales and grows. And like, I really love the building side. That's

what really led me to change. And I still. I was still really sad though. When I left as I announced

to the business that, um, I'll be leaving. I prepared this speech and again, I'm feeling the

goosebumps in me, but I prepared this like speech.

And I said to myself, look, I wanna just, just say it from the heart. And I remember from the first

line, I just started crying. Like it was, it was probably one of the most vulnerable situations I've

been in where literally I said the first line. I just started crying and I, fortunately, I had like a

prompter, so, so I had that from my, on my back, but literally, I was just crying and I don't think, I

don't think anyone expected of did?

And, um, I think someone even kind of gave me some tissues and I, I think what was nice,

which was in that story was that I always said to the team like, Hey look just. Just say just, well,

have you're feeling, just express it. It's okay. It'll be okay. And like, weirdly I just, that was my last

speech in tify was that, and um, I left, I just gave it everything I got and, um, it was a beautiful

journey a new chapter, um, for me was about to start.

Yeah. Yeah. That's

fortress dude, so, it's it is pretty awesome. So, alright. Let's change gear. Let's go to reaches,

right? So you start a new company. First of all, let's talk about the ideation process behind that.

How did you? What did you do after unified?

Did you like it, did you go on a holiday? Did you go to a retreat? Like what, what's the, what was

your vibe at

laugh. So I, so in, I basically stepped, um, we basically recruit this incredible CEO and I

basically. Became on. I moved onto the board.

Um, and we all know what happened on March 20, 20. So I book this quite amazing, like a few

months for a year, I was super pumped. Like I bought all the backpacks and all the gear. I was

super pumped to go travelling.

time with myself and, um, With my brother and with friends and obviously, you know, during that

period during a lockdown and just try to, um, Yeah. Just like, I guess reflect, I think

serendipitously

know, from a personal development point of view, because let's say, I remember you were

chatting to me about this like the epic trip you were about to take.

And like, I felt bad for you obviously, because you know, it would've been, it would've been

wonderful, like going to, you know, Bolivia, South America asking me for tips and that kind of

stuff. I was like, yeah, Jay's gonna have an awesome time, but actually, you know, there's a

famous, um, Parable or saying about like how somebody can learn as much as they need to

know about the world, by staying in one position and looking under a rock as they can do by like

travelling around, you know, wherever.

So, you know, that that opportunity to, to be introspective, I think probably wouldn't have ever

lent itself in it. And it came at the right time, but that's me like I missed a half glass fall over here.

Uh, so. It can be a bit annoying for people

brother.

Um, and, um, there are two other Alexs that I worked with at tify and myself. We worked on this

business called Reach. Like initially I was just helping from the outside, but now I had this time, I

thought, okay, let's get my hands dirty. And, um, really where reaches came was. To really solve

that problem or bring joy to work.

So you obviously know a little about reaches, but for the guys who don't like reaches is about

allowing businesses to send personalized gifts at scale. So whether you're an employee,

customer, or prospect, you can now send a gift. Um, so someone like Youk, I'd love to send you

obviously a hoodie which has got Imperial university, maybe showing the year you ed, maybe

showing a few like societies or some like fun bits that happen in the journey and like really give

you this hoodie, cuz it's like bringing back all those memories.

And it's obviously beautiful. Right. It's like me showing my love to you. Right. I was thinking, why

don't businesses? Why can't businesses do that at scale? Like, why can't they send like, gifts?

Like whether it's like cookies or chocolates, or like there wasn't like, essentially like a

marketplace, like a delivery to send these gifts.

That's what Reach was. And it was about the main objective of reaches was to bring more

smiles to people. And yeah, and I think that's really where weirdly, lockdown brought me to

reaches, like from a sceptical point of view, RO

they, you become more memorable to them and then you can upsell them with all the other

services that you have.

Right. But I mean, I believe you, I, I, I know where you're coming from. You're trying to bring joy

to the world. What, I wanna know is like how, how you instil those kinds of values when there

are plenty of sceptics that would. Believe the

experience of unifying came in just like making sure the vision was truly felt.

I still remember the time when we put the vision of the reach desk together. Like all of us

founders got together. I was in my proper spiritual zone and like really thinking, just like. About

love, but also like how can we really bring more joy to work? And I can't remember the vision

and what vision is, is basically something that you wish the world would be like in like 10 to 20

years with your product.

That's what a vision is. And, um, I still remember our vision and I still remember the moment I

said it and it still gives me goosebumps this day. And it was like, it was our vision is that every

business will be loved by their customers, employees in the. I still remember the moment I said

it like everyone just froze because it was such a bold vision.

Like how could, like, you know, how do you make a business be loved? Um, cause businesses

right now are like, you know, some people think businesses are cool. Some people hate them.

Like there's this whole like view on businesses. So the objective of our vision was that business

will be loved. I'm impressed

Again, sceptic groupie over here. I, I, would've been like, you know, Jay's just on his spiritual

journey and know what he's talking about. Like bringing joy to, you know, wanting everyone, you

know, like how is shell gonna be the most loved company in the world sort of thing. Do you

know what I mean? Like, but I know I get, I get your vision.

I get, I get, I get the sort of sentiment behind it, but I'm imagining

you know, to get to that point, like I remember we had probably about six, two-hour session. And

during that moment, it was weird, but I knew roughly where the direction was gonna go.

But I knew at that same time that I had to, we had to really stretch ourselves and like in a weird

way, I was planning some, not seeds, but I could feel like slowly, like each week. So we did it

every single week for two hours or like a Friday, um, exactly what you were doing on Friday.

Like real deep chats on like, talking about like the meaning of life to then like, you know, the

meaning of business to bringing real joy, to joy, to work.

And, um, yeah, it did take some time, but eventually. We all just looked at each other, went,

yeah, this is it. And so you get, you, you grow

company has grown faster than what I'd have expected.

Like it's gonna be a, you gonna unicorn like very soon and like, yeah, it just happened super

quickly. And, um, I feel that it was just because we honestly did build the company from the

heart. Like, I, I cannot like, honestly, it just came purely from the heart, like in. We just wanted to

do good. Like we wanted to do good for like everything.

When we thought about building it, we always thought long-term. We always thought about like,

you know, trying to send, send more sustainable goods, all of this. I think people can feel it. It's

just super true. And like when you meet people from the business, as we will feel it. And I just

like the most beautiful thing in all of this is now I, I believe we've sent like a million gifts, so I

know a million humans have.

A personalized gift arrived for them. And I know what happened. They could probably, hopefully,

they felt in their heart, they smiled and, and I do feel like, you know, what I think was really

powerful about reaches is when you do receive a gift, let's imagine I did send you that Imperial

hoodie, which I probably have to now because I've been saying it so much.

Right. But like, you're gonna feel really good and happy then, you know, you go, you can get a

We'll do that. But like at that moment, when you receive it, you're gonna feel really happy and

you are gonna maybe with be with your beautiful fiance and then she's gonna feel that joy, like

what's the most incredible thing is that when you receive a gift, the people out near you also

feel.

The energy that you have, they also feel energized. And suddenly, like, you know, later on in

that day, you may go, you know, with your app, you may go pitch to an apple or whoever it may

be. And like you, you still got that energy and you might close one of your biggest partnerships

or deals. Like, I feel like what a gift can do is just like, it's that first little domino that can really

just change, like someone's day or that moment.

And I feel like that's what, that's, what was behind. I think the other important thing

prospecting in a B2B

In a company as, as reach desks. And like, clearly it works. I mean, it, again, it was like another

place that was voted best to work out or something. I don't know. I, I don't pay attention to these

things, but like, it's

place to work. And again, like it's just.

I think what we've done as leaders is just say how we feel being like really true and honest, but

making sure it's really purposeful. It's not like, I think people can, people know when leaders are

real. Like we're not, you know, everyone's, everyone can feel it now. I think we're all as humans

becoming much more self-aware and conscious of just like, you know, what's really happening

below the line.

So yeah, I feel it's, um, I feel like reaches really has proven to be. You know, one of those comp-

like conscious businesses, this has been great.

and, and your journey and how you've you. You're quite humble.

know, the second company that you've really doubled down on as soon to become a unicorn,

you started another company.

You've also got a studio. Uh, why? I mean, what, what is the draw? I mean, I kind of know the

answer to this question because being an entrepreneur, I like being punched in the face as well.

And, and I like, you know, the roller coaster journey of the ups and downs and actually part of

the entrepreneurial journey, I think, and, and hopefully this sort of resonates with listeners who

are interested in the subject of joy at the workplace has enjoyed the ride of, of being on that

roller coaster.

That is your entrepreneurial journey whilst maintaining sort of an air of excitement and the

enjoyment of the highs and the low. So creating that sort of like middle path with like our

emotions and our reactions, but why, why aren't you just like chilling? Why, why are you not just

like, you know, done this, got the studio, got the cash?

Got you, got everything sort of like, you know, the right teams and stuff. Like what's, what's

pushing you further.

success. Like, you know, there were definitely bumps along that journey as well. Like, you know,

for example, a lot of venture capitalists rejected me on fundraising.

We, we raised during COVID, which wasn't easy. Like we did have a lot of challenges, but I felt

like, cause it was my second time. It's like going in the jungle when like you see different

animals pop up and you see like a lion come and like. But you're aware that, Hey, there's a,

there's a line of metaphor at that moment.

So like, you're more aware of what's about to happen, but then random stuff does still happen,

right? Like COVID happened. I didn't predict it. And certain people that you may know in your

network may think, Hey, maybe they just can invest straight away, but they're not. So like, I feel

like, you know, you still so way, way, it was a bit of a roller coaster, but I guess it was a bit

smoother, obviously reach the desk.

I, I sit on the board, I'm the chairman of that business and it's growing really well. And yeah,

look, I took a bit of time. You know, went travelling a little bit and were still working, but mainly,

you know, just travelling and. Yeah. I was like, I enjoyed that life, but honestly, it just wasn't, it

wasn't for me.

Like I had this again, that voice saying, Hey, like Jay, come on, go make work joyful. Like this is,

and you know, this is what kept on pulling me and I. So what I've done is I've built, um, a studio

called bliss growth, where we create businesses and really the ethos there is like about creating

businesses that will bring more joy to work for me.

That gives me my creative spark. Like, I feel like all of us humans need this creativity. Vent to

release and like that's me building businesses and also investing in other startups. I get so

much joy from like investing in other companies and watching these entrepreneurs do crazy

well. And like, and I know weird where I'm like living through them.

It's like, I get more, I don't for me, I get excited on winning still, but I get probably more excited

when like I watch someone else win for the first time like that. A huge buzz and, and yeah, and I

feel like this is my opportunity to also like give back through this studio. So yeah, that, that's

I, I think like, I think it's also important not to be around the Bush,

this happy, joyful, spiritual character. Right. And actually bringing that sort of joy to funding

rounds, people who are there too who are pretty malicious and trying to screw you over and

stuff, that's actually

That you are playing and actually why, you know, the spiritual grounded side of you is so

important. Otherwise, it does become a proper emotional rollercoaster. I, I don't want people to

think that, oh yeah, like everything's joyful and stuff. Like you're gonna come across dicks. And

they, you would've had your fair

Look in the startup community, or just in any business, you're gonna get people that are just out

there for themselves. Right. Um, I even noticed in my fundraising round for screen loop, like

people were just like, some investors were just looking at me and like going, oh, here's Jays,

this third company, you're just a walking dollar bill.

Like, awesome. Like, let's, if I invest in him, we're gonna win and we'll make lots of money. And.

My new company screen loops about really helping businesses with their hiring, which I feel is

super, super important like is a really meaningful problem that I'd love to solve, like making

businesses, like helping them hire the right people.

I could see from some investors, that they were passionate about it, but a lot of them were just

like, oh, here comes some money. Let's go for it. So I think, I, I think now I'm just a bit more

aware of. I'm aware of it and I can see it, which is great, but you know, I still have to, you learn

differently like there are different types of humans out there.

I feel like every human's out there for their own good way, like, and they're all learning as well,

but you know, at the same time, I've gotta make sure we pick the right partners, um, for that

journey. Cuz you know, when you're building a company it's like. You need the right people.

Yeah, yeah,

Cool man. Look, we talked to a whole bunch about a whole bunch of things here. You know,

your journey up to this point.

delved a lot. No, I feel like we've got some stories

episode, but you, the more.

The

mate. It is brave. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about this kind of stuff, particularly when, you know,

companies are still alive and stuff, and it's not the done thing to be a spiritually minded CEO.

And I think there are a whole bunch of connotations that, that you are gonna smash by showing

that you can be successful and marrying that with, with, with joy.

But anyway for like, for like the listeners, what should they expect from other episodes on this

pod and why should they invest their precious time in, in us?

entrepreneurs. Yeah. And really ask them how they brought more joy to work and learn from

them.

I think it's, and then we will do some episodes, just you and me, and, um, you know, really go

down on some specific topics that are really important to folks. And, you know, the main thing is

just having a bit of fun, have a bit of a banner between you and me. We already have these

chats anyway, whenever. We hang out, whether it's like going for a swim or jacuzzi or going out

for a drink, whatever it is.

So I think now we've just got. And the open place to talk about it and, um, yeah. Yeah, definitely.

I'm just really excited to see what's ahead. And hopefully, I can be as good as podcasts as you

are. It's a beautiful journey. I want people to, to really get

privy to your knowledge.

I, I get to voice note you all the time. I get to hear those voice notes. And with me, you're not

holding anything back. You're doing it in a compassionate kind way. And I think what this

podcast could do is give people access to your insane. Researched well, researched knowledge

and lived experience. So. I would love, to see more of that come out in future episodes.

And I think, yeah, getting other guests on us, speaking about different topics, you know, we're

gonna talk about some books and conscious entrepreneurship, and I want to get your opinions

on it. I'll give my opinions and we're at very different stages. You're like, Multiples entrepreneurs

raised a, a, a buttload of cash.

I'm very early stage of just starting my first tech product. And I'm in the process of building out

my team. So, you know, it's, it's gonna be good to have these two angles as,

um, make it one of those like a real community. Focus ones where like we'd love to do like

meetups and, you know because I think one of the big challenges we all have is like trying tomeet like-minded people.