Episode 14: A recent experience in the gym triggers Rupy to discuss how allowing time for boredom is impacting his life. Jay explains how to approach money management and how he creates space in his busy calendar.
Rupy demonstrates why the right mindset and belief system is so important to succeed and Jay discusses ‘breathing room’.
What to look forward to:
00:38 Scheduling time for boredom
08:50 Getting smart with money
09.47 A mindset that breeds a lifestyle
12:39 Money rules
18:23 Breathing room
25:57 Amit concludes the podcast
Product-Led Growth: How to Build a Product That Sells Itself by Wes Bush
Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
Secrets of the Millionaire Mind: Think Rich to Get Rich! by T. Harv Eker
I Will Teach You To Be Rich by Ramit Sethi
Previous guests include:
Reece Chowdhry & Poppy Jamie
Ep 14 How changing your belief system can help you achieve your goals
Apologies for the typos, this is an AI transcription[:
I had an annoying scenario the other day where I forgot my AirPods when I went to the gym.[:[:
Really to help. It reminded me of something that I talked about on my podcast recently, which is scheduling time for boredom. And so I thought to myself, Okay, instead of like being annoyed at the fact that I'm not gonna have to get to listen to the book that I'm, I'm into, I'm listening to Product Leg Growth.
Have you, have you read that before? Yes. So awesome. I thought, Okay, this is my scheduled time for boredom. And, uh, I had a conversation with Steven McGregor on my podcast. He's, um, uh, he is like a happiness consultant for a number of big companies like Telefonica and all that kind of stuff. And he's like, We need to schedule time for boredom because it's the antidote to our hyper-connected world where we're always looking at a screen or listening to something.
And I reflected on when I was in the gym in my boredom zone. It's very uncommon for me to not be sat in front of some screen or having some sort of, uh, interaction with a dish or advice or consuming some information. Yeah. Yeah. And in that sort of, the moment where I was like doing my gym activity on the rest of it, I just allowed myself to sit with my thoughts and.
Honestly, I'm gonna do this a lot more often now. I'm actually gonna have at least one once a week where I don't have my AirPods in and I'm not consuming anything and I'm doing something mindless because that boredom actually allowed me to, to piece through a whole bunch of things with the company and, and everything that I'm building as well.
And I'd had quite a stimulating couple of weeks, obviously with the wedding. Yeah. Chatting to people and all that kind of stuff. And actually, dude, it was, it was pretty, it was like a, a bit of a breakthrough for me in terms of finding a meditative. Practice that isn't literally[:
You are in a meditative state. You are thinking. The brain's now on, right? And what will happen is suddenly all of these different thoughts will come like ping, ping, ping, all these different thoughts come in. Actually, what you'll find is a repetitive pattern, this is what you notice in meditation as well.
It's like the same thoughts kept, keep on appearing. The strongest thought starts coming. Yeah. So I'm curious to know what, do you remember what thoughts, cuz these thoughts come up and it might be about business or. Um, relationship or friendships, whatever it might be. So was there a pattern just having Yeah, it was definitely,[:
It's really weird because the the last chat we had with Poppy was all about ego. Mm. And values kept on coming up for me a lot. And one of the things, maybe it's a product of my recent experience, but the one thing I realized I value the most is having. All those people around me, having all those connections.
Wow. Having those friendships and people willing to like travel. I mean, half of Australia was there, man, Like the people literally traveled for hours to get there. Like Drew came from, uh, California, whole bunch of my mates from New York and, and Chicago and all the rest of it. That for me was like a really big sort of, uh, realization about what I value and what I wanna bring into the rest of this year and going to next year as.
Going forward as well. And also it kind of sparked up some other ideas about like what I've been seeing a pattern of. So there's an Australian company, I think it's called Un Yoed, but there's a whole bunch of other sort of similar companies in the UK now where they are uh, basically doing singular retreats where you literally unplug.
Yeah, yeah. Uh, I think it might even be called Unplugged re[:[:
You can't consume any information. You can't speak to anyone. You can't communicate, even like, you know, with, like, you can't give a little eyebrow shuffle or anything like that. You literally just look down and you're in your thoughts and you walk and, and that. I've never actually been on one. I've just heard of these.
A less extreme version of that is taking yourself out to, I don't know, Norfolk or like, you know, some cabin in the woods that's unconnected and you can choose to have your wife on and off or whatever. Um, and you just sit there and you read or you go for a walk or whatever. You're just on your own. I think that's gonna be really, really important as part of a mental healthcare package.
And I've even[:[:[:
Yeah, that's the whole paradox of life. It. You know, everyone wants stimulation, but at the same time, they all want stillness. And how do you balance the two? And it feels like that experience of you leaving your AirPods gave you that sight of stillness when, um, when it was desperately needed. I don't get that excited to do it.
I'm gonna be Absolut honest. Mm-hmm. . But I know deep down if I do it, it's good for me. But. Yeah. From that moment of making that decision and then doing it that space, it's always sometimes a bit uncomfortable. It's[:
You're like, Yes, I can meditate, .[:[:
And when I meditate, After I meditate, whether it's five minutes or 10 minutes, I feel so much better. Mm. And so I actually kind of look forward to[:
Um, sometimes I'm up for it, and sometimes I'm not. So it's just, I think it varies. And look it, you know, all these different things were discussed and these are just. The ones that work for me, these are ones that work for you, like, Yeah. Yeah. If you like walking, then that's cool. Like whatever your method is to have stillness or time with you and yourself is great.
But yeah, I just feel, Yeah, sometimes I wanna do it, sometimes I[:[:[:
Yeah, yeah. Do[:
Mm-hmm. . And in that period of time, I will just do
You, that's it. You're on the don't mean hits being a hit. You're like, you're waiting for that next stimulation. Who should I select? Who should I email? And you just on. So I really, really make sure, and I know meetings are used at the start of it. Yeah. It's a full, a meetings a full experience.
Right. You're listening, you're seeing someone, whether it's even online. Yeah. So that, that normally gets me going. So I don't mind sending a few emails in the morning. That's fine. You know, once I do a meeting, I feel like that's game on button and I'm like, Wow,[:
Anything that requires the cognitive side of my brain. Mm. I try and do first thing in the morning before I just disturbed by anything. Mm. Then I go and exercise and then the day starts after breakfast for me and that there's actually research around that as well. It's. You have this, this bundle of energy in the morning, and the longer you leave it, the more it decays over the day.
So you wanna try and do as much of the creative stuff in the morning, cuz that's where you've got the biggest bundle of energy. Cuz you know, ultimately that's just gonna decay, uh, more hours in the day. Wow.[:
Yeah. Yeah. Um, you got any other topics? So, I[:[:
That's the three parts.[:
So Get Smart with Money is a, is a really interesting documentary. There are four people that they, uh, look at. These people are assigned like a money manager, Sly, like a financial manager, and they basically show them how to save more. And, uh, and spend less, but was still having sort of enjoyment of like, you know, the day to day, like spending time with your kids, going on holiday, all that kind of stuff.
One of the things that stood out for me in this documentary is this line that says it's a mindset that breeds a lifestyle. And the thing that really spoke to me about this was, it's the same thing I do with healthy eating. It's the same thing I do with exercise. It's the same thing I do with meditation.
So the mindset that I have for healthy eating, I eat healthily. So when we went to the corner store, just re just literally just before this podcast and, uh, I'm looking at all the different options. There are sandwiches that I, I want cause I'm super hungry. There's like, you know, uh, chocolate bars in my mind I am.
A healthy eater, right? Mm-hmm. I, I prioritize making sure that I'm fueling my body with the right stuff. And so what do I find? I find a small part of the refrigerator that's got some lentil. Yeah. I dunno, you found that[:[:
And then I find, uh, some nuts that are just like lightly salted and some water. Yeah. And when it comes to like getting smart with[:[:
And that documentary actually made me realize I do want to like, you know, retire early and have the option of working until my nineties. Cause I know I'm never gonna start working. But I definitely want to be financially in. I do[:
Like my, I think my parents have given me that, um, insight and I guess wisdom quite early cuz you, they came as refugees so they had to learn that relationship with money and um, had to save it. So I feel that's been like a bit of a priority. Or like quite important value or part of me. Whereas for you probably it sounds like the healthy side.
I know you went through a lot on your Healthy Journey you mentioned on the podcast, and therefore that became a priority. So yeah, I think it's good you've seen that show. Now it's, you know, I feel in the game of money now, it's now gone up. Right? Yeah. We talked about before it's like there's different games and I feel now this game of the relationship with money is gonna.
Hopefully you're gonna learn stuff from that show. Yeah. And now it's become a priority. You're gonna ask people like me or other people that around you who have maybe have a relationship that you would like to have with, um, money, and it will start evolving and changing. You[:
Uh, on certain aspects of living to ensure that I can have certain moments like a wedding or, you know, when I've got a kid or when we're doing certain other elements in our life that I've got the sort of reserves to, to invest in those. Yeah. So it's a kind of a blend of delayed gratification as well as like splurging for moments that are[:
Yeah. For me, I did actually create like a system, so I did have a system on how I wanted to spend my money, how I was gonna save money, and also how I view money. Mm. So I actually went on a course, Funny enough, I went on a course, which was just about money. When was this? And this was like when I was young, like 24, 25.
And it's all about really working out. Your like things that have happened to you in your life relate to money. Mm. And it forced you to Yeah, it was quite deep work that I to do. So, you know, remember moments in which, you know, I struggled with money times when money was exciting to me, and in the end, what then happens is you had a bunch of affirmations or.
Values, which I said to myself for about a year. Ah, and that actually helped me quite a lot. So, you know, things like money is a flow of energy. The more money I invest, I can also make more money or, um, things like money will come and go in my life and that's okay. So like I had a bunch of these different affirmations that I did actually say for about a year that's sick.
And that really did improve my relationship with money. And it also made me believe I can get money. And then also then it comes to the moment of yes, saving spending. I did have. I did, I was quite geeky, but I did like, keep like a spreadsheet and I knew like how much I was spending and I knew how much, how much I wanna save.
And the one thing that I did was initially, which wasn't healthy, was I stuck by these rules and that wasn't good. That was quite like I was quite confined. I felt a bit rigid in life. Mm-hmm. . And then I was realized, okay, as long as I'm within 25%, 30% of like the deviation. Of like being in those thresholds and it's okay.
And then that made me feel a lot more relaxed. Mm. Obviously as time's gone on and I've been more fortunate with money, now I can probably expand that way to 50 or 60%. Right. But that was my system. So you know, if anyone that is struggling this area, I would actually. Think of certain affirmations. Um, there's so many great books out there that talk about this.
So the guy's course I went on was a guy called Harveka and he specializes on this. It's like wealth creation, man. It's called Millionaire Mind. It just teaches you a good ratio with money and then system of like saving and your spending. I feel like it's just quite simple. Get a spreadsheet out. It's not a fun exercise initially.
Yeah. But just. You know, documenting where you're spending,[:
And I think that's fundamentally what these guys in this program did as well. Each of the money managers basically, Create them a spreadsheet. Very simple to do. Yeah. They said, These are your incomes. These you, these are your expenditures. Separate them out. See where you can save. And just do that every month.
Yeah, every month. I was gonna ask you actually, if you, What are your informations now? Like do you still do this exercise?[:
Mm. I have to also be quite careful cause there's certain people, you know, my dad won't mind me saying it. He's still very much about saving. Yeah. So if he sees that I'm spending a lot of money, he'll come after me and go, What are you doing? Then I'm just like, well, you know, um, my life's different now. I can, you know, I've, I've, I'm in a good place.
So, but he's still got that original mindset Yeah. Of saving and I. And I respect it. Right. Lot do a lot of immigrants. So I feel that those informations are, are embedded in me. Mm. Um, so I don't really, I don't have to work on Yeah. It's a bit like for you on healthy eating, right? Yes. Like, you don't need to, you don't need to go, Hey, this is un like, you just, you don't have to say this is unhealthy, this is right and wrong.
You already know. All the games of life, like again, I always talk about this for like career or being happy or making money or relationships, friendships, like you know, all of those quadrants, they've all got their own systems and mindsets and, but you have to invest a time in it, right? Yeah. Some people probably listen to this go, Oh my God, I've to create another system and I have this for money and I get it, but you don't have to play this game.
But if this game is important to you, which I think is important, like your ratio with money, cuz it's gonna be your ratio with money will always be. Till the day you die at some point. Cuz even the money you've accumulated, you now need to give it to somewhere else, right? Mm-hmm. . So, you know, it is worth investing that time, like reading a book or two or speaking to some experts and, you know, Cause I feel everyone has got some words or money even for me right now, even so, you know, now that I've, um, sold some of my, um, companies or I'm aware like I've, I now have to upgrade my systems as well.
Yeah. It's like, okay now. Extra money now what, what am I gonna do with it? And hence, I'm gonna now invest in startups in these areas. So, you know, you have to keep an upgrading. It's like I needed to Yeah. Um, have another system, but it's, um, it's a beautiful game. Yeah. I think it's a beautiful game. Yeah. And I think[:
Yeah. Like what, what I'm planning on doing over the next couple of weeks, I think it was. Talking about this off, off pod is, uh, coming up with meal plans that demonstrate that you can eat healthily, have your diversity of ingredients, have 30, uh, different types every week. Uh, the right number of plant points, the right amount of protein.
Yeah, plant focus, yada, yada, yada. On a budget, like a serious[:[:[:[:
Yeah. And people get distracted as well, like, I know this as well because I'm pretty frivolous in the grocery aisle. Like I'll just buy everything. Right. I, I don't mind that, like that for me. Yeah. One of my sort of money rules, you know, Ru said, he talks about uh, money rules in, in his book, One of my money rules is I'm allowed to splurge as much as I like in the supermarket.
You know, if I wanna try something that's like, uh, healthy or new or whatever, I mean, it's part of my business as well. Mm. I'm allowed to do that. Or, you know, if I want to read a. I don't think about the cost of said book. I just buy the book, you know, wherever I world books or whatever. Um, and I think people have to sort of like figure out where their money rules are.[:
There are so many things going on. Right. And for me personally, I'm happy to be open about some of the things that are going on. Um, I'm heavily involved in four or five companies and like two are fundraising. One is in a processes or like a sale process Also, you know, this podcast in our live, and it's the first time where I was having to do podcast marketing.
Yeah. And being on social media, I had three back to back trips of Lisbon, San Fran and also your wedding. Um, in Sicily and sorry about that. Um, and , no, and had a lot of other personal stuff that was coming up. So had all of this going on and things were happening that were unexpected. So one of the companies that's supposed to raise money, there'll suddenly big delays.
And this is really risky cuz if there are delays in a fundraise, that means the deal could go off and suddenly, if you don't raise money, that means you need to start cutting the team down, trying to get to profitability. Otherwise that companies are gonna. Right. So you got people's wellbeing at risk. Yeah.
I also had a jet lag, so I just got back from San Fran. And by the way, going from West coast Yeah, to London is the worst jet lag in the world. So did all of these things like brewing up and honestly, I was, I felt overwhelmed and unfortunately that week had session with my life coach and I was, I told him, I said, Look, this is what's going on.
He's like, Oh, that's quite a lot going on. I said, Yeah, it is quite a lot, but I can easily handle it. But you know, I could see at that point I tipped over. It's like, you know that cartoon when like someone's holding all those plates? I literally, they were about to fall and he's like, Look, I know what's happened.
I said, Well, what's up? He's like, You've not left any breathing room. I was like, What do you mean? And he's like, The best way to be operating. Is where you are, 80% capacity and you've left 20% just in case for the unknown. And it seems so obvious, but at in this, in the world we're living right now, we are taught to maximize and try to grab everything and.
I didn't leave any breathing room. I dunno if you've felt this, that overwhelming, but the breathing room, Julie, any Yeah, no,[:
Energy that we're putting into everything, whether it be podcasting businesses, all that kind of stuff. It's 110%, let alone. A hundred percent. Yeah. Right. And it's funny you said that about like, uh, 20% because I've recently, I dunno if you've seen it, I did a TikTok where I talked about how you're meant to eat to eight[:[:
And that's really interesting. So how are you putting in that 20 section? Yeah. Reserve capacity because I don't know whether I've got 20%. Yeah. I just[:was, I had that freedom until:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause a[:[:[:[:[:
We haven't instigated. Yet as a company, but I've got two less than full-time employees. So they're on like three, three and a half days each, right? Yeah. Already they're operating pretty well. I probably need one of them to step up to four days, but I can't afford that right now. But I definitely want to go down to four days at some point in the future.
I just don't, I'm not allowing myself to, I probably could. I'm probably giving myself excuses, but I'm not allowing myself to out of fear right now, but I firmly believe. Taking myself out the situation, a four day work week is what we need to strive for globally.[:
I think if you're an early stage business mm-hmm. , like if you're tying up like you need to really, I believe hustle and graft, you will. Yeah. So I feel there's a time when everything's in structure, you can do it. It's so funny. I was, um, some friend told me a story of this, um, really successful person. He's created many companies, um, someone that I've looked up.
And he's hardcore. Like this guy is intense and supposedly, he's like, there's a team of like, he's got new startups, only 30 people. And on a Saturday he's working like really, really like at full Pel and he is messages the whole company going, Hey guys, um, you guys aren't working hard enough. I can tell we all need to work at least 20% harder.
And if you don't, um, up it, you might as well just leave. Cause this place ain't right to you. . So like, you know, so, so you, you've got one extreme of that. And the truth is that business is really competitive. So if you're competing against that squad, like yes. Will they burn out? Potentially, yes. Is he gonna potentially go through his team Many times, yes.
But is he gonna be successful? Yes. But is he gonna be happy? No. But you know, at the end of the day, like that is who you're also competing with. People are like that person. Yeah. And he's IPO like three, four companies. Wow. Like this guy. A machine, right? Mm-hmm. . But this is how hardcore he goes. So if you're competing against him, yeah, you're in trouble, right?
He's going all in. So there is this balance, I think each person needs to find. Their own balance. I dunno what they're right[:
That's one example. The other famous one is Silicon Valley's base camp. Yeah, yeah. So their four day, four days a week, and they were relatively small when they started that as well. They're a bit of an unusual company[:
Yeah. So like[:
Yeah. Right. But I think it is possible, It is possible. To do it in a different[:
As common yet. I think once it get to a decent scale, yeah, you can do it. But yeah. Let's see. Um, I, I think we, I think we're still in the first innings of this whole four days. Let's see how it all pans[:
Yeah. I don't like one. You're on the[:[:[:[:[:
Um, and the line that you said is, uh, the antidote to the hyper-connecting world and. I've been thinking a lot about this recently as well because, um, you know, whenever we pick up a podcast or we listen to an audio book, we, um, like the assumption is there's something out there that I need to learn. So the mode is like self-improvement and striving and we never really look for like self-knowledge and appreciation.
And it would be like if you are building an app that you just keep building new features. Like say if you're building the doctor's kitchen app, I'm. Instead, if you really focus on what you already have, that would make like a massive, uh, difference. So, and that, that really is like every spiritual journey is self knowledge rather than continual improvement.
Exactly. That's epic. Yeah. The second topic was, um, getting smart with money and then it's a mindset which breeds the lifestyle. With the lifestyle. Well, sometimes we're. I don't know, maybe someone's thinking about just the result, but they haven't thought about what's the mindset. And, and different people are at different levels and obviously people start with like, um, a different upbringing.
But there, there'll be people, for example, racking up credit card debt after credit card debt, which is probably what no one in this room would do. But there, there's like skills and knowledge. So ju just to be aware that that stuff[:
So that my best thing that I learned was getting the right system. So I went on those books and I read those books or go, go on those courses, learn the system, and then you have to then throw it out there and see if it works. Just throw out there, adjust, and eventually it keeps on improving. A bit. Like, you know what you discussed about being healthy, right?
Mm. There's certain things that you think are true, but then you gotta figure out what's right for you and you gotta play. It is another game, right? Honestly, I feel.[:
And then to help you along that journey, you have frameworks. Frameworks can only work for so long. That stuff might be able to help you in the short term. And a lot of people who are like looking to eat well might go on a diet plan because they need some structure. Mm. Willpower will only work for so long.
It has to be your mindset. You have to really believe that you can aspire to whatever the goal is. Yeah. And so whether that's money, whether it's meditation, whether it's healthy eating, exercise, whatever it is, you've gotta start with mindset. When you say[:[:[:[:
Yeah. That which is very, very unusual for a lot of people. I encourage. Yeah. Yeah, because I,[:[:[:
Yeah. But I definitely didn't have that belief that I'm a healthy eater and it was ju purely a belief thing. It's like, okay, I eat well. Like this is, this is me, this is my identity. I'm a kind, the kind of person that eats well every day, and that's it. And that shift in mindset allows everything else to click into place.
And then, then another[:[:[:
Like he loves to tip as well. Yeah. Um,[:
Yeah. And I think he's the same with like tipping and money in general. He is like, it's just a flow of energy. I'm gonna give energy, I'm gonna give energy. Cause he knows he's gonna get it back from the universe. Maybe not consciously, but like, you know, it just happens for him. He's just, yeah. And[:
He had that, that one like was also super powerful because, um, I. Even though you're saying this stuff, people probably look at, uh, UJA and think, Okay, the way he's doing that is he's just working super, super hard. But the, the strategy can't be just to run faster because that, uh, yeah. That that's not going to work.
That strategy of running faster is like, can we be more efficient? Let, let's try and do things quicker and quicker. And like you say, it's gonna lead to burnout. Like what you're doing with breathing room is like, they call it effectiveness is like to really pick the things that you wanna do and then just say no.
And the other bit that probably people miss is, it's hard to say. No, it's not. It's not[:
So it's, I'm letting people down.[:[:[:[:[:
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